Forbid circumcisions!
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Violence against kids motivated by religious reasons is rather still a taboo.

We want to deal with the most worse form of violence, the mutilation of extremities of kids.

<<< My old religious excercise - book from 1963/4: "The mortal sin devides men from God. Everybody who dies with the mortal sin, will be thrown to the hell, because he ´d lost the grace life... without sin - light sin - mortal sin."

At the moment we can notice a time of immense religious polarisation. The old Christian national churches of Europe got ruined and they are not able to exist by their own power any longer. Our society is almost secularized, only a minority is feeling to be obliged to the old religions.. Thereby the interest of people in religious alternatives, like esoteric, tantra etc. is rising. At the same time Europe is challenged by the Islam promulgating. But also (religious) Jewish life is rising up again.
And so we ´ve to ask the question how we shall deal with each other. We have to come to terms with the actuell situation, whereby a total tolerance would be as bad as intolerance.

What will be the sense of the initiative for a prohibition of circumcisions?

The basic sense of this initiave is to bring forward the right of religious self - determination for all people, either kids and grown - ups. Nobody will be asked whether he wants to be a member of the X - religious community or church, but he will be forced to do so by being baptised as a kid or by the chance of his birth normally. A possible later secession from the church will not be respected by the great Christian churches and by the Jewish church. Islamic churches threaten with capital punishment at all.
This right is ignored by all religious communities without any exceptions till today and its detended to the members. This methods are tolerated nearly always by the stately power, normally they are protagated at all.
The membership in a religious community or church has to be in each case in a volunteer way. The members must have the right to suceed from their organization without having to fear acts of revanche.
At least a lot of advocates of kid´s baptism say that the kids hadn´t to stand any suffer, if they will got a little bit water spilled over their heads. Everybody who wants can leave the church later and wouldn´t have to pay for it. Nobody would be interested whether he is a member of the church on a cheat of paper or not.
Maybe that there are people thinking so, I can´t say it. But at my time - I was born in 1955 - kids were beaten in churchly kindergartens, schools and other educational systems, and the religious education caused a lot of uncontrollable fears. But it will be difficult to get clear proves, because only the kid´s sentiments were hurted. Only claims for smart money by § 847 BGB (civil code of Germany) will remain.
And so we have to concentrate ourselves at first to the prohibition of circumcisions, because we can prove them clearly almost decades later.
Next to it the necessary dicussion about the moralic and juristic conditions of circumcisions and other forms of religious violence against kids religious self - determination will start, I hope so...

What´s about juristic matters? There is really no law prohibitting circumcisions!

But there is no a law prohibitting tatooing or piercing of little kids at all. We don´t need for each kind of bodily injuries a special law. The laws already existing punishing bodily injuries are sufficient, but they have to be used in a consequent way finally.
There is a general social and juristic agreement that ill - treatments of a kid cannot be tolerated. Thereby the motivation of the wrongdoers doesn´t play a part: Excessive charge by general life conditions, alcoholism, drugs, a psychic disorder or still religious reasons.
The motivation for ill - treatments of kids are only relevant to answer the question how to deal with the wrongdoer. Does he need a psychologic treatment or must he be put into jail? Shall he lost the custody of his kid?
Now there are a lot of concerning parents trying to neglect their responsibility by pretending medical reasons for the circumcision. But this matter will be turn out to be a lie, because there are normally big family celebrations for the circumcisions. Nobody would celebrate a medical treatment.
But even a treatment motivated by medical reasons will be respected juristically as a bodily injury, if the person under consideration does not consent. But the allowance of the parents causes that the medical treatment will be for the kid´s favour.
Normally that will be only a defensive lie, because circumcisions are only necessary in seldom exceptional cases which will be provable. In the best case the advantages and disadvantages of circumcisions compensate each other which will be provable too. But this wouldn´t be a juristic legitimation for a circumcision.
Now the question has to be answered whether the circumcision of kids motivated by religious reasons is compatible to the laws (not only) of our country. Therfore it will be necessary to make some precedent trials. All people alligated, doctors, parents, kids and the church, have to be interested in to get to know the legal situation.

What do the koran, bible and talmud say to the circumcision?

I ´m not competent and responsible to answer this question. But the interpretation and qualification of this publications don´t play a part, because only the general human rights and the stately laws are relevant.

Circumcisions are normally made by Muslems and religious Jewish people, but Christians don´t so. Thereby the demand to forbid circumcisions is racist and anti - Semitic.

If we cede necessary and legitim critique at grievances to the rightest further on, we will not have to complain about that they will find new followers and more political influence later on. The rightest would like that best to banish Jewis people and Muslems out of Europe, that may not be our aim. It shall be rather of importance to affect them to give up some religious exercises, therefore their religion might become tolerable for rational thinking people one day. That mustn´t be an hopeless enterprise, because there are also some Jewish people criticizing circumcisions.
Reciprocal tolerance is a necessary condition for a peaceful social life of people with different cultures and thinking, but tolerance may not be accepted at any price. At the moment the conditons for tolerance are unfortunately not given.

Circumcisions are quite usual in the USA also by Christians. There is a large social acceptance. You don´t know cases that somebody rebelled against circumcisions.

But also slavery was accepted by state and society in the USA 150 years ago. You could demand the re-introduction of slavery by this argument.
But the USA proved that their state and the society are able to develope themselves. I want to remember at the civil rights movement of black people during the 1950s and 1960s. They were succesful to abolish white racism and aparthid extensively.
But there will be no why to be satisfied with the matters happened for the US - American and all of the others. We have still a lot of things do do in order reach the full religious freedom.

There are circumcisions already for a lot of centuries, they are an old cultural tradition.

All the worse! That only proves that we have to act. We can answer this question in a very simple way: We care about god traditions and abolish bad traditions.

But Jewish am Muslem parents are obligated by the rules of their religions and churches to let their kids circumsized.

That will be right, the parents and the doctors are not the only ones which are responsible for the injust the kids have to suffer. The churches obligating such an act are responsible in the same way.
But now the juristic situation is clear. If an organziation tells their members to commit criminal acts, so the organization must be respected to be a criminal community. Such an organization has to be forbidden.

The demand for a prohibition of circumcisions is an attac against religious freedom.

Everybody who trys to justify under the cover of religious freedom cruelty against animals, ill - treatments of kids or even carry on "holy" wars, will pervert religious freedom to its effect.
The religious freedom belongs to the general human rights, it shall offer people to decide in peace and freedom pro or contra a religion of their choice without restraining.
The right of bodily and mental safeness of kids may not be infringed. But a grown up may do what ever he wants, he may noch be favored or prejudiced because of his decision.

What would be the ideal solution of this problem?

It would be the best solution, if the churches were intelligent and neglect on circumsisions, baptism of kids etc. on a voluntary way.
However if there was such a readiness in reality, the churches would had had the possibilty to act in the concerned way for centuries.
But reality proved unfortunately, that the churches have been getting better only by outer pression. Otherwise we would have got the Christian stakes till today.

The German justice have been respected to kill animals according to Jewish and Muslim rites - cruelty against animals! - to be concordant with religious freedom, because religious freedom would be a privileged right.

You can surely advocate in a different way, whether the killing of animals according to Jewish and Muslem rites, what complies the fact of unnecessary cruelty against animals, is according to the right of free practising of religion.
But there is surely a difference between a cruelty against animals and kids. We shouldn´t be respectless against kids and should make a difference to animals.

Could you imagine seriously that the German justice will punish a Jewish person because of circumcision in reality?

I don´t think so. But I can´t also imagine that the German justice will condemn a Muslim because of such a delict in order not to provocate similar trials against Jewish people at all.
I think this matters are deplorable, because the legal state will be damaged once more. Nobody can neglect that Jewish people had to suffer a lot of unjustice and persecutions, almost but not only during the Third Reich. But a privileged special treatment may not be accepted anyway, because otherwise further antisemitism would be advanced.

...but what shall be the sense of the legal actions against the respected doctors and parents?

Let´s see, the intention is to inform the population about this problems. Besides them there is no real knowledge that an act was wrong by the Muslims I know at least, that circumcisions etc. are wrongdoings.
Matters which are noch clearly forbidden seem to be tolerable by the society, for example the Dutch drug - laws.
Besides them we can notice in other countries a different situation. The non - German jurists can judge without being prejudiced of the awful history of the Third Reich.
Besides the relevance to criminal laws we have to notice the points of view of the civil right. Because doctors and parents dealed by order of the churches, the repected churches were responsible and liable for the half of the claim of smart - money of the victims of religious violence. The churches would be accused of a quantity of legal proceeding of smart - money, what would ruin their economical power in a very strong way. If the churches want to prevent such a situation, the churches have to prove their understanding and have to change their behaviour.
Anything what ´s being good and right will be succesful, in any way!

 

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